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Originally Posted by authenticallyme  i agree about the forums 'overall and encompassing' purpose.......but it seems like no one here will step out and validate some of the things im reading. while i can now appreicate there is a process and depth here that although i may not understand, still exists- |
Well, several posters actually have validated some of the things you are reading, and uncomfortable with, but they don't exactly spell it out, most likely because they don't want to alienate those who wrote those things. And they also points out that you're reading the post outside the context they are written in, and try to describe that context.
One comment I've seen that made me jump when I was new here was something like "If she has invited you to her apartment to sleep, then she wants to have sex, so go for it."
This is a really crappy advice because if you don't understand the context then its just an old attitude full of disrespect for women, and it will make some guy, who take it the wrong way, a rapist.
But if the advice is red as if it means "Since she invited you to her apartment to sleep she probably has had fantasies about it possible leading to sex and she might want that to happen if it happens in a way she likes, so try to make it happen in a way she likes, but don't push it beyond her comfort zone."
Well, then its a fairly good advice. And this is how most guys here actually would have meant it to be interpreted. Some posters just assume that there is a common understanding that you never do anything that would hurt or harm a woman, others make sure they write in such a way as to not create confusion about that common understanding.
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Originally Posted by authenticallyme i ALSO read things (like on the homepage for Vic) about a testimonial where a dude got his chick to do a threesome. im sure he has all kinds of 'she-really-wanted-to's" to back it up, but sorry, i see some of the tactics here used to manipulate. not every post; not by everyone....but i do see it, and it is hurtful to me as a woman, and it also saddens me.......for other women, and even the men who use these tactics. |
I can't speak for that guy or for why Vic uses that in his marketing. But I can tell you something else.
I've always assumed that women don't want threesomes, that most women are not bisexual, that women don't like kinky sex and generally that women are less interested in sex than men. And that women who take part in all these things are manipulated or dominated by men who only care about themselves. Because that is what the culture surrounding me when I grew up told me.
But a consistent advice from a lot of different sources in the pick up community is that if you believe those things about women then you don't pay attention to the women around you, and you should start to pay attention. So I did.
One of the things I've found is that my wife has spent 13 years telling me stories about how women flirt with her, how excited she is when women flirt with her, how she finds women attractive, which types of women she finds attractive, how she once had a total crush on another woman, how she used to play really kinky things with some female friends when she was a kid, how important she thinks it is with having an open mind towards gay people and recently she playfully and excited accused me of being bisexual when a gay guy flirted with me and I flirted back.
Basically she has been telling me at least a hundred times that she is potentially bisexual. And I didn't listen because it wasn't congruent with what I believed to be possible, so I interpreted it as a kind of insecure jealous test thing she did to me sometimes. How utterly stupid of me, now I have thirteen years of ignorance to overcome.
And this is not the only thing, looking back I can tell all girlfriends of mine has hinted a lot that they wanted to do much kinkier sex than we did and at least half of them has hinted at ideas of group-sex or sex in public. And I turned a lot of it down because I couldn't believe they meant it. How amazingly stupid of me.
One male friend of mine once, just out of the blue, said that he and his wife had discussed to invite me to group-sex with them and he was curious if I was interested. I thought it was a joke so I said no, because knowing him I couldn't see how He could have come up with the idea. Well he didn't, because it was his wife's idea, how else could you interpreted the fact that every dinner party I've ever been to with them she hints at the subject by starting conversations with me around ideas of women having two men. And every time I've said I think its a stupid idea, and elaborated on that theme, because I thought she was trying to make her husband jealous or something. How stupid of me, especially since she is the kind of woman I can't look at without imagining her standing on all four naked.
If twenty years ago I had known and used the stuff I've learnt the past year, hanging around in this forum and some others, then not only had my sex life been far beyond most peoples imagination, but a lot of women had been much happier because I could have fulfilled their fantasies and made their lives richer in a lot of other aspects too. Not that its been bad, but it could have been amazing.
I know that some guys use methods and tactics to manipulate, there has always been men (and women) who does that, but those are the guys not paying attention to the women around them. The truth is you don't have to manipulate, you only have to pay attention to women and use the methods and tactics to fulfill THEIR fantasies, because they usually don't know how to do that themselves.
And don't say that women offer sex or threesomes or kinky sex or whatever just to get some emotional connection back from guys (there are some who do) because its easy to spot the difference when women offer sex in exchange for something and when they are hinting at the possibility of fulfilling a fantasy for them. In my experience women who hints at fantasies become almost electrified if you hint back that you might have the same fantasy. Women who is looking for something else in return doesn't get electrified.
And since the world is full of women with amazing fantasies as soon as you start paying attention, there is really no need to manipulate or use women who don't want what you want. Its just a waste of time.
Just as you, I feel sad too when I see people manipulate and end up hurting others. And very much so if they post about it here. But its not the result of them using methods and tactics learned here or somewhere else. Instead its the result of them not paying attention and seeing reality as it is, before they used the methods they had learnt. And that is true of every method and every tactic ever invented, regardless if it was for the purpose of picking up girls or for something entirely different. It is a characteristic of knowledge.
Which brings me back to one of your earliest post. Didn't you want us to look at reality? Well, we do. And reality is far more amazing than anyone would have thought. I just wish I had found out sooner.
/Flow