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#16
12-28-2007, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
And, may I mention that the only posts in this forum I've seen that show cult like tendencies are your posts. Every post you have written so far is designed to deliberately destroy male readers self-esteem. At least under the condition that male self-esteem works the way you seem to presume. Happily for us it doesn't. /Flow         |
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#17
12-28-2007, 03:58 AM
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i have come to rescue, and i pull a wagon! i dont have a problem with men, women, or ants trying to improve their sex lives. but playing games to get laid, seems very unimaginative, and self serving. many posts ive read seem to care less how this affects the woman, all they care about is the score. are you seriously telling me you DONT SEE THE POSTS im referring to? i mean, cmon now. and yes i know ive come off strong, but the more i read chronologically, the more irritated i became. its very hard to digest, and not feel ill....and if ya'll take that personally, then you give yourself too much power;im simply relaying my feelings and thoughts of what *I* think and feel, which is separate and detached from you and your thoughts and feelings. you see insults, because you want to see them. i was not intentionally or maliciously insulting anyone, but at the same time, maybe it sounds overreactive. well enough. im sure im not the first chick to stroll on in here and give a piece of her mind. convince me im the only one who has issue with the principles here......lets get real! |
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#18
12-28-2007, 03:59 AM
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flow said: ***Every post you have written so far is designed to deliberately destroy male readers self-esteem.*** every post? deliberately? contraire, mofraire. unless you care to articulate. |
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#19
12-28-2007, 04:51 PM
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 I am very glad you have come on here and said your piece because it brings up a lot of important issues.First, what's wrong with a man wanting to score? Score=have sex. Straight men like to fuck women. How is that a moral issue? Your life would be very boring if men did not want to have sex with you. You're right, self-esteem is fundamental to all this. I wholeheartedly agree. So how does a man develop self-esteem? I'd like you to actually provide some content if you're going to participate in this discussion. This whole part of the forum is devoted to issues like self-esteem. I don't think "mirror work" is the answer. I think we've all tried that. I'll reply by sharing what I DO think works, at least what has worked for me. The issue you have with my "value of beauty" post seems to be that I am proposing a selfish approach to women. Absolutely. Born alone, die alone, and only I can live MY life. I don't make love to women for their sake. I enjoy making them feel good, certainly, but ultimately, it is for MY enjoyment. Have you ever had sex with a man that was totally concerned with trying to please you and perform for you? How was that? Now have you ever been with a man that grabbed you, held you, touched you, penetrated you without any doubt, without any hesitation, and thoroughly and fully enjoyed your body without worrying about your opinion of it? Now how was THAT? You cannot argue with my point that physical beauty is overvalued and creates all sorts of problems in the minds of men, which in turn leads to fucked up intentions, weird behavior, and ultimately, dissatisfaction in the women they meet. Women always complain about being put on a pedestal, and guys acting like wusses and not being MEN. This is a direct result of overvaluing physical beauty. That is what my post addressed. If you read all my old posts, I think you will see that we are on the same side. What I want is what you want. As far as games and manipulation, you are absolutely right. If you READ my posts, you will see that I go the absolute opposite direction, to the point where I'd rather be honest with a woman even if it means I won't "score" lol. On the flip side, do not, for a second, pretend that MEN are the game-players. What actually happens is a man will be timid, awkward, or overly arrogant (as a shield). In response, a woman will test him in ways that he is unaware of. Totally confused, yet horny, the man will try to second guess the woman and now we have a game of sexual battleship. Here's a common example. Man approaches woman, they have a decent conversation, and there's clear mutual attraction, but they don't get to talk long enough to make a solid connection. Man gets woman's number and calls a couple times. Woman WANTS to talk to the man, but is scared he's just out to get laid, and wants to see if he is REALLY that into her. So she waits to see if he'll call ONE MORE TIME. He does. She looks at her phone as it rings, and feels an inner sense of validation, because now she knows he is really into her. She doesn't answer because she knows she's got him, and can call him back whenever she wants and he will answer. But she doesn't, because that weekend she meets another guy, and repeats the process. Eventually, she meets a guy through friends, they start dating and fucking. At first the man is really into her because the sex is fun. Then the sex loses it's excitement, and because the woman has spent most of her post-pubescent interactions with males trying to seduce them into validating her, she doesn't actually have much of a personality around guys. She has very weak rapport skills with men, because she hasn't actually been in rapport building situations. Most of her experience is with initial flirting and phone games. So the guy gets bored with her (lack of) personality, and the sex doesn't make it worth the time, so he drops her. And now she thinks guys play games - they tell lies just to get laid. It never occurs to her that he DID like her, until she ran out of things to say. Now she is even more on guard with the next guy who calls her. Eventually she hits her 30's, freaks out, and with passive-aggressive genius, pressures whoever she is dating during this freak-out to marry her. Two kids and a divorce ensue. Most men I know HATE playing games, but after dealing with female bullshit for long enough, they begin to think it's necessary. But they're not as adept as woman, so they get caught and look sleazy. Women play games, but are smooth and well-calibrated. I teach men to SEE when a woman is playing games, and neutralize that, without getting sucked into it themselves. There are ways to optimize a man's personality so he can short-circuit each phase of Sexual Battleship. For example, I teach men to approach POWERFULLY and connect FAST, so there's no phone-flake bullshit. You have generalized all the guys on here, and that is a mistake. Look at my replies to questions/posts of guys. I make a deliberate attempt to cut through the bullshit, and offer a new, no bullshit, no manipulation solution to guys' issues. I'd venture to say that MOST of the guys on here are the same way. Look at members like freeverse, bossyboots, diablo, and many more. There are also guys who are just now trying to figure this stuff out, and are coming from the VERY COMMON position of trying to manipulate to GET sex from women who simply look pretty. It is UNCOMMON for a man to "just be himself." Even nice guys are manipulating to get something. Our culture perpetuates this attitude by presenting women as if they are expensive ITEMS. It's called commercial objectification. You are berating the guys on this forum who are nobly trying to BREAK FREE from their mental cage, but are still stuck in their old mental habits. It is not your place to judge them. Instead, encourage them and be glad they are trying to be better men. You may end up dating one. THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO HONESTLY AND DIRECTLY COMMUNICATE YOUR NEEDS TO MEN WHO WILL LISTEN. I'm very glad you are here, as I am with all members. But especially since you are a woman, you're presence is honored and valued. Please post more, start new threads, and offer your insight in specific, constructive ways. I'm sure the guys would LOVE to hear what you have to say, as long as it's not random heckling from the peanut gallery. You are clearly intelligent and are coming from the same place as I, and many others are. Start a new thread on something that bothers you about the men you meet, or on something you wish more guys did in their interactions with you. I would love that.
__________________ http://www.FloweredPath.com |
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#21
12-29-2007, 01:24 AM
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i cant seem to post here. this is a test. |
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#22
12-29-2007, 01:30 AM
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hello, Brian. i'll try my best to articulate, by copying and pasting portions of your latest post: ***First, what's wrong with a man wanting to score? Score=have sex. Straight men like to fuck women. How is that a moral issue? Your life would be very boring if men did not want to have sex with you.*** Its nott he desire for sex for me, that is a moral issue. it is when i read a mans disappointment at "what-did-he-do-wrong-that-i-couldnt-get-into-her-pants" and then he asks for insight.....the way many men here are writing out their thoughts, is directly what leads me to believe they dont care too much for the women, that the higher goal is for sex. if im wrong on some, then im wrong, but there is no way im THAT off the mark. how can you say, that my life would be very boring if men did not want to have sex with me? are there not other components to life? when i was younger, maybe somewhat, but today, the way i enjoy life does not pivot around if men want to have sex with me. in fact, i wish some men woudlnt want to have sex with me, cause some of the looks they give creep me out. i like to paint, finish furntiure, swim, run, and play with my children. i dont stop doing those things, or feel a void or boredomin my life simply because im not having sex. if i let that be an issue, ive now given my power over to men, chanting,......."only if they want to have sex with me, can i be happy!" its simply not true. instead, my focus needs to stay off men, and on myself. i can be happy even if i dont get everything i feel im entitled to, and i can be happy even if i deprived of certain things. deprivation wont kill me. i promise! ***You're right, self-esteem is fundamental to all this. I wholeheartedly agree. So how does a man develop self-esteem? I'd like you to actually provide some content if you're going to participate in this discussion. This whole part of the forum is devoted to issues like self-esteem. I don't think "mirror work" is the answer. I think we've all tried that. I'll reply by sharing what I DO think works, at least what has worked for me.*** provide content? i have. ive given some good reasons why i think what i do. ironically, mirror work was profound in some of my recovery issues. and it was SO EASY, i just had to be diligent in it. i do not think one 'prescription'works for everyone, and i do certainly believe mirror work, worked for me. i also beleive it probalby doesnt work for some. we are intricate beings...with different personalities, thoughts, upbringings, cultures, etc. mirror work is something, too, that takes months upon months. i do truly think ive been rewarded for doing it. like you, *I* can only say what has worked for me.....it doesnt make it WRONG, or BAD-its just 'different'. *** The issue you have with my "value of beauty" post seems to be that I am proposing a selfish approach to women. Absolutely. Born alone, die alone, and only I can live MY life. I don't make love to women for their sake. I enjoy making them feel good, certainly, but ultimately, it is for MY enjoyment. Have you ever had sex with a man that was totally concerned with trying to please you and perform for you? How was that? Now have you ever been with a man that grabbed you, held you, touched you, penetrated you without any doubt, without any hesitation, and thoroughly and fully enjoyed your body without worrying about your opinion of it? Now how was THAT?*** we differ here. i HAVE made love to men for both our sakes, simutaneously. while it is for my enjoyment, if we are both simutaneously concerned with the others' enjoyment, everybody wins. i find it very intimate, serving, and receiving. ive had 'both' kinds of sex that you mention, and i like the first as much as the second. the second type, with none of the qualities of the first, isnt completely pleasureable. both components are needed, well in my case anyway. the latter type does come off too agreesive (notice i didnt say aggressive, i said TOO aggressive)....and on one plane, where as the first scenario often is accompanied with depth. not saying ther 2nd cant be, if it is it will be equally satisfying, because it is underlined with safety and trust. again, this is my opnion, and i spent much of my life with the 2nd scenario......it fades, believe me. once i hit 34/35, i needed something with substance. i mean i alwasy did-even as a young girl-i never had cheap detached casual sex....well maybe a little, but different cicumstances.........the point IS-the latter scenario alone, could never get me off completely. i see motives as if they are vivid 3D images popping out of peoples hearts.....if i dont trust you....i wont reveal myself to you (very deep)......i would be super-cautious. certainly i like a confident man, but why is the 1st scenario you painted so often paralelled to an unconfident man, and the latter is an assertive man? you can be both, and still be scenario #1. ive experienced it, and it was wonderful, for me. ***You cannot argue with my point that physical beauty is overvalued and creates all sorts of problems in the minds of men, which in turn leads to fucked up intentions, weird behavior, and ultimately, dissatisfaction in the women they meet.*** no, i agree. thats why i dont get why men make such a BIG FREAKING DEAL on who looks good. i prefer authenticity; seeing and being allowed to enjoy the real person, not the person they 'dramatize' to be. by the way, it also causes women trouble, when men overemphasize a womans beauty. it works for ill on both sides. ***Women always complain about being put on a pedestal, and guys acting like wusses and not being MEN. This is a direct result of overvaluing physical beauty. That is what my post addressed.*** not ALL women complain about ALLLLL men ALLLL the time regarding this. thats very black and white thinking (IMO), in a world of much grey. it is not ONLY a 'direct result of overvaluing physical beauty'-though that may be one component-there are hundreds more......its more complicated than you illustrate. to simplify it, to that degree, leaves many answers yet unrevealed and lacking. *** If you read all my old posts, I think you will see that we are on the same side. What I want is what you want. *** i dont think so.......but im trying to be open minded.....i dont think we want the same things though. the very fact you were created male, and i was created female, pretty much dictates those differences, amongst a myriad of others. but, im listening. As far as games and manipulation, you are absolutely right. If you READ my posts, you will see that I go the absolute opposite direction, to the point where I'd rather be honest with a woman even if it means I won't "score" lol. On the flip side, do not, for a second, pretend that MEN are the game-players. What actually happens is a man will be timid, awkward, or overly arrogant (as a shield). In response, a woman will test him in ways that he is unaware of. Totally confused, yet horny, the man will try to second guess the woman and now we have a game of sexual battleship.*** may i suggest...........she also tests in ways SHE isnt aware of. where did i 'pretend' that men are game-players? that is a generalization......my only comments were regarding the posts i answered on this board. notice, i didnt answer them all. when i leave this board, i do not go out into the world thinking all men are anything. i know some very genuine, nice men. and i would not want them outta my life. i do not hate all men and im sorry, even confused as to how blanket statements are being assumed in reference to taking bits and pieces out of posts on one cyber-board..my life encompasses much more than that....it kinda bugs me that it is assumed (theres the black and white thinking, again) that becasue i said THIS and reacted to THAT, that soemhow equals im a man hater. that isnt a very well rounded, investigated, or even logical statment to make. i mean, anyone here is of course free to make it, but i dont accept it simply because i know me better than any of you, and i know the truth of my world and life i live in, and there are men in enjoy and are very close to. you guys dont like blanket statements from me, but in retorting to me, you do the same exact thing. frustrating. you want to be validated for your thoughts on these subjects, but in turn do not do the same for me. ask, but dont assume either, then. |
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#23
12-29-2007, 01:35 AM
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***Here's a common example. Man approaches woman, they have a decent conversation, and there's clear mutual attraction, but they don't get to talk long enough to make a solid connection. Man gets woman's number and calls a couple times. Woman WANTS to talk to the man, but is scared he's just out to get laid, and wants to see if he is REALLY that into her. So she waits to see if he'll call ONE MORE TIME. He does. She looks at her phone as it rings, and feels an inner sense of validation, because now she knows he is really into her. She doesn't answer because she knows she's got him, and can call him back whenever she wants and he will answer. But she doesn't, because that weekend she meets another guy, and repeats the process. *** 'woman gets scared'---i wouldnt be scared;i cant be scared that easily, therein lies the difference.maybe id be on guard, but i wouldnt allow someones interest or lack there of to cause me to be SCARED. looks at the phone? id just pick the stupid thing up. why play games? whats odd is, just because a guy called me would not have me assuming he was "that into me". three phone calls = 'that into me'???? things take a lot more time than that to process....if this is a 'common occurence' as you mention in the opening of this paragraph, that is frightening. if the woman would just be honest and real and unafraid casue she can navigate calmly and unreactionary to her own emotions, all woulds be well. why so much drama? why so much dishonesty? there is another way you know, and im not the only one who practices it. that there sceanrio sounds like two incredibly insecure people playing time wasting games, all to give their ego a boost. that chick was DEPENDANT on that man to puff her ego up. and his ego was dependant on her answering or calling back. that why he would move on quickly to next said girl...cause if he'd take the time to process through all his emotions (rejection, insecurity,etc) he'd realize he is putting himself in games way, and would move outta the way! and find a healthy functioning woman to date instead. ***Eventually, she meets a guy through friends, they start dating and fucking. At first the man is really into her because the sex is fun. Then the sex loses it's excitement, and because the woman has spent most of her post-pubescent interactions with males trying to seduce them into validating her, she doesn't actually have much of a personality around guys. She has very weak rapport skills with men, because she hasn't actually been in rapport building situations. Most of her experience is with initial flirting and phone games. So the guy gets bored with her (lack of) personality, and the sex doesn't make it worth the time, so he drops her. And now she thinks guys play games - they tell lies just to get laid. It never occurs to her that he DID like her, until she ran out of things to say. *** the fact that she thinks the guy plays games, and once again, that man does this + this happens next = 'man plays games'.......is craziness. while these types are plentiful, they arent the only kinds to walk the earth. i dont need a man that bad to put up with games and needless crap just so im not alone. what a waste of good energy. i dont need sex that bad. once i did. beleive me, you can get over it. sex does not have to rule us. i do not need to 'crack the code' of getting, predicting, or analyzing strategies to get sex. i know many men would respond to the game........i could get sex and lots more. but i dont want to play that game, cause deep down my conscience tells me IT DONT FEEL GOOD. i dont believe attractiveness (on any level-physcially, intellectual, emotional, social, etc) was given to abuse. id rather cherish it like a gift, and not later sya 'oh, i only got that guy becasue i have massive beautiful boobies'..like the unfortunate woman you described eventually had to accept-which she problaby didnt, and instead chose to repress her feelings and jump in the sack with next said man. i find that super-sad that this is the depth of dimension some are satisfied to live in. you may agree, but still you and i take very different paths, in seeking what will honestly work for us, individually. ***Now she is even more on guard with the next guy who calls her. Eventually she hits her 30's, freaks out, and with passive-aggressive genius, pressures whoever she is dating during this freak-out to marry her. Two kids and a divorce ensue.*** pressures? why doesnt he say no? who wants to pressure anyone into doing what they dont want? not very gratifying. ***You have generalized all the guys on here, and that is a mistake. Look at my replies to questions/posts of guys. I make a deliberate attempt to cut through the bullshit, and offer a new, no bullshit, no manipulation solution to guys' issues. I'd venture to say that MOST of the guys on here are the same way. Look at members like freeverse, bossyboots, diablo, and many more. There are also guys who are just now trying to figure this stuff out, and are coming from the VERY COMMON position of trying to manipulate to GET sex from women who simply look pretty. It is UNCOMMON for a man to "just be himself." Even nice guys are manipulating to get something. Our culture perpetuates this attitude by presenting women as if they are expensive ITEMS. It's called commercial objectification. You are berating the guys on this forum who are nobly trying to BREAK FREE from their mental cage, but are still stuck in their old mental habits. It is not your place to judge them. Instead, encourage them and be glad they are trying to be better men. You may end up dating one. *** i dont think i generalized ALL the guys on here; to my recollection i only read about 15 threads? im not generalizing the men, but i do have many red flags about the principles. there are other places in the world, and right in your home town, where these principles are not being taught, and yet men and woman are finding satisfying relationships and friendships. ok, maybe i havent affirmed and validated that these men are trying to 'break free'.......i just dont think they are getting the right information or helpful answers, thats all. yes,its admirable that they want to break free, and i can see from all the "why did i only get this far?" posts and posts titled "two makeouts".........that its does appear intially they are only here to learn how to get good quick connections that result in sex. i mean, the titel i read at the right hand corner suggests this is a 'pick-up' training site. thats whats objectifying to me, personally. yes, nice men are manipulative, too, even in more secretive ways. what they do its as easily caught by female insightfulness. but when a person is very honest and in touch with themselves, they can pick out dishonesty and ingenuinity in others. this objectifying thing is nott he only reason men, women, or children are manipulative. there are many, endless reasons. it seems there is one answer here for things. one way to think, and reason. when in actuality, there are several reasons filtering into 'why nice men are manipulative too'. its not so simple. i venture to say that in any gorwth, to take on narrow-minded thinking as that, is dangerous, cause it leaves so many stones unturned. maybe its uncommon for a man to 'just be himself', but its what their inner person really desires-absolute acceptance without any "but's"....i say, take a rsik, just be yourself, and get honest-first with yourself, than with close people you feel safe with who will affirm you-and anyone after that who doesnt 'like' your real true self, can go eat bark off trees. im serious. thats how i live. im not about to let my acceptance of self pivot on if others want to accept me or not. id be here, wasting my life away, ever-hopeful. if these guys be themselves, and dont get girls, so be it. let them trust that they are doing the right thing, and good things come their way. there is nothign wrong with getting over insecurity issues, and if that is what they have, by all means DO IT. i just dont find the way you prescribe as very healthy, but then again, i respect that this is your thinking, and it is true for you. we both have our opinions, we both have our experiences, we both have our theologies. and that is ok. of course i earnestly believe in my heart that what i read here is potentially dangerous.....so im going to say something, just as you here who have felt my thinking on things is poor at best-and have stated so, so will i state my piece. |
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#24
12-29-2007, 01:36 AM
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*** THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO HONESTLY AND DIRECTLY COMMUNICATE YOUR NEEDS TO MEN WHO WILL LISTEN. I'm very glad you are here, as I am with all members. But especially since you are a woman, you're presence is honored and valued. Please post more, start new threads, and offer your insight in specific, constructive ways. I'm sure the guys would LOVE to hear what you have to say, as long as it's not random heckling from the peanut gallery. You are clearly intelligent and are coming from the same place as I, and many others are. Start a new thread on something that bothers you about the men you meet, or on something you wish more guys did in their interactions with you. I would love that.*** yes, they listen, but rip apart what i say. i dont feel very safe to share those things here.....and unfortunately, sorry to bring it up again, but it has to do with the pretense of the board. this is a pick up artistry board. men are answering other men with clues, insight, and lessons on how to lay women. you cannot possibly tell me (well, i guess you CAN) that most men who arrive here, that isnt their main and pressing goal. it doesnt matter if down the line that goal softens, it is still the underlying existing pretense. so, how do you suggest, with that strong inner conviction (just being HONEST) that i can share here? that would be irreponsible of me. i mean, i have shared to SOME degree, just maybe not the way you would like. its more complicated for me. i do agree that i could have been more constructive, but look at it through my eyes. no matter how softly i speak, or how sweetly i post-the fact that i simply do not advocate the principles being taught here-is always going to come between myself and anyone who posts to me. if we cant get past that-how can we ever move further? it will always be a tripping stone, on both sides. i mean, going way back into this post, simply knowing that sex between you and i would only have you looking more out for youself-demeans the whole conversation we have NOW. if you do that with sex, it transfers into every facet of life, like posting on cyber-boards. so i would not feel truating or safe to share my precious pearls with you. its nothing personal-to you-it doesnt mena i wouldnt like you, or have coffee with you, or watch your shild. it just menas that on a very deep and intimate level, i cant trust someone who i can sense doesnt have my best interests at heart. thats all. hpe that makes sense, and it received in the non-threatening way it was meant to be. thank you for taking the time to discuss, and opine with me. |
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#25
12-30-2007, 12:08 AM
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authenticallyme: Thanks for a very good and enlightening post. Since I've been tearing apart everything you say until now I'm going to do the exact opposite. I'm going to agree with you on two issues and I'm going to try to explain something. First I agree with you on your opinion of Brians attitude to sex. I have sex for the benefit of both me and the woman, I love giving women pleasure, sometimes more than experiencing it myself. That doesn't mean I perform for them or try to please them the way Brian describes. I'm very dominant, very confident and fuck my women's brains out. I also think its a serious turn on for me when I can give my woman a whole series of orgasms and know I'm giving her pleasure. On the other hand I agree with Brian that sometimes you might temporary attain the attitude that you are mostly acting selfish, because otherwise you might fall into a pattern of not acting sexually confident. Its basically a trick to become more aroused, and a better more confident lover. All men do these things, they just don't tell women. Possibly because most women would react like you do, with distrust. I wish this wasn't the case. I wish that women could understand that when a man attains a selfish attitude during sex it can actually be an act of much deeper love for her and if she would accept that and meet him there they would get a deeper an more intimate emotional connection. Some women do. The other issue I'm going to agree with you on is that this is a Pick Up Artistry board. And I think that is a very limiting description of what this board is about and what the services and products the company behind the board sells. (I might mention that I'm not associated with the company at all, and have never been.) Brians description about what this is about is much better, but still he is only touching the surface of it. There is a reason for why this is called a board about How to Pick Up women. The world is full of men who has no experience talking about feelings, they have no social skills at all, they cannot touch other people physically, they cannot handle relationships and they totally suck at every imaginable people skill. And they doesn't even have a language for talking about these things, because they grew up learning that men don't talk about feelings or they where to shy to talk to girls or their first sexual experience was a disaster and they couldn't talk about it with anyone because "guys don't do that". And they don't know what is wrong with them, they only know that some parts of their life suck and the most obvious thing wrong is that they know "I CAN NOT PICK UP GIRLS" Now this might sound like a very objectifying statement about women, but it is not for most guys who actually state that. Its a very emotional statement, most likely the most emotional statement they have ever put in words, its an expression of despair, of sadness, of self loathing and it really means "My life totally suck because there are no women in it and I cant feel like a whole human being without meaningful relationships with women." What most guys don't know when they decide to learn to pick up girls is the enormous amount of stuff they must learn to do that and how this will change their attitudes and personality. One thing they must learn is to talk about feelings. But you cant tell a guy who thinks in terms of "I want to pick up chicks" and "guys who talks about feelings are gay" that he must learn to talk about feelings. So you use a technical term instead, completely void of feelings, and tell him to learn to "build rapport with girls". That way you can get the guy started on the long journey to learn to talk about, and to express feelings. You get him started because you didn't tell him to do anything that collided with his current belief system. Most guys also need to obtain a huge amount of practical experience before they start to see that their attitudes, belief systems and feelings are rather small, limiting and that they need to change these things. Actually interacting with real women and discussing these interactions with other guys is a very helpful way to start to see that you need to change yourself and not just obtain some technical skills. I hope you feel I've treated you with the respect you deserve. And thank you for taking the time to write such a long and interesting post /Flow |
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#26
12-30-2007, 04:13 PM
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I recently read "Freedom from the Known" where the author (long ass Indian name) states that everything we do is at it's core, selfish. even if you are trying to pleasure someone else, you are ultimately doing it to feel good, i.e. you are doing it for your own benefit. The biological basis for all we do is selfish, I think...I may change my opinion at some point, because I also believe in a higher reality that goes beyond biological survival. Authanticallyme - you talk a lot about needing trust and comfort. I've found that I trust and feel comfortable most with people who are not trying to impress me or please me, but are being themselves without a hidden agenda. I also have much better interactions, relationships, and sex, when I am that way myself. My overall point with the two types of sex was to use sex as a metaphor for the entire interaction/relationship. A man who enjoys himself without too much concern for impressing others or pleasing others is by far more attractive in any context. I personally enjoy GIVING pleasure rather than receiving, but I don't pretend that I'm a saint for this. Ultimately, it is what gets ME off - when I see a woman feeling great from something I did, that turns ME on. Only I can experience being turned on. I can't experience someone else's experience for them. I love what you said about seeing someone's intention like 3D popping out of their heart. I think a purely sexual intention is not a bad thing to see in a man, as long as there is no intention to hurt. What do you think? Have you ever experienced that and liked it?
__________________ http://www.FloweredPath.com |
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#27
12-30-2007, 09:05 PM
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Brian, i completely agree with your posts. some personalities just 'mask' their true intentions......nice guys surely can be doing it for their ultimate good, too...i agree....i know this becasue i used to be hihgly codependent, and had to realize that often the things i let people get away with, was for my higher good. there was often a hidden motivation......though on the outside, most people would have thought i was a saint, for all i put up with. you may not agree, but i do think it works best when the man is the initiator........but this places the woman in a more fragile position. today, i see severly codependent women....struggling for control.......they do the pursuing, the initiating........and it looks really SICK to me. they flash men, offer threesomes, and take X rated pictures. they entice, seduce, and the like. IMO, this is to usurp the man and take control.....women know what men respond to on that simple palne of lust and the physical.......and they use it. i recently told a man, who has been having threesomes quite easily......(and its the women offering/initiating)......that these women do it for a rise of power. he of course, doesnt want to believe this, becasue then his ego would have to admit that it had more to do with the womans control issues, than it did with him being Preferred Stud. He cant bear that loss, and wants to believe that women are highly sexual and wired like a man (which scientifically, not many at all are....though maybe a few)....so he didnt listen to me and thinks im whacked. many women today act pathetic in their desire for a man, offering sex becasue that is the only way they can get any emotional scraps fed to them........ anyway, being the man appears to be the stronger of the two, i like to trust a man first. i wont feel violated when that happens; everything is freely given, with no strings. it is then, for me, that real intimacy takes place. ***I think a purely sexual intention is not a bad thing to see in a man, as long as there is no intention to hurt. What do you think? Have you ever experienced that and liked it?*** well if its PURELY sexual (that is the connotation in which you are asking the question)....i dont see how it CANT have some intention for hurt. i should say HARM.....harm differs from hurt. i dont like casual sex, sex with no strings, or one night stands. it is imperative for me to connect on a deeper level, and with spirtual purpose. i mean, sure, sometimes i get a rise when i walk in a place and men turn toward me....but ive learned a few things..and that is:its really no big deal, in 15 minutes he'll do the same to some other chick. i mean, there is always somebody prettier.....and a man looks quite easily, so i certainly dont take it personally of allow it to puff myself up. if i can detect a man is feeling that 'dynamic' with me, yes, it can be tempting IF im attracted (which doesnt happen easily for me as reasons mentioned above-need the spiritual connection)....but i also look at is as a fleeting, impersonal thing. i dont wantr to say men think with their d*cks, but my point is they are wired differently and have instinctual planes they must relax about, if they want to get to know me better. for me, it actually feels quite shallow or unimpressive, to have man drool over me (yes, even the hot ones)...i mean, its tempting for a moment, but then i remember everything ive learned. it just doesnt amount much in my book. thats solely my opinion, and only one angle i present here; certainly not all i think on this subject in this very post can be contained or explained as minutely as id like, because my other life calls. hope that somewhat answers your question. |
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#28
12-31-2007, 02:18 AM
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#29
12-31-2007, 02:21 AM
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things that make you go, "hmmmmm"?  |
