"Approaching, Opening and Hooking"

[Redux]

"Approaching, Opening and Hooking" Video Response:

It would be very nice if you talk about opening groups (+2 sets) and leading them since there's almost no information to do it in a natural way.



PS: I'm worried about the word "hooking" used. My terminology refers back to indirect game in the way "demonstrate value until you hook the set" so this would be against "assume attraction" referred in many direct/natural articles (incl. Vin's articles).

[walnuts]

I find that for daytime approaches, they usually have to go somewhere or do something, and they respond with something like, "I have to go." This seems to happen with very high frequency.

How would you deal with these logistics?

[Vin DiCarlo]

PS: I'm worried about the word "hooking" used. My terminology refers back to indirect game in the way "demonstrate value until you hook the set" so this would be against "assume attraction" referred in many direct/natural articles (incl. Vin's articles).

Ahh. Understandable. Yes you should never "demonstrate value til they like you" etc....

I do always assume attraction, and furthermore when I say hooking I mean "using mental structures to generate intrigue to the point that they are chasing by means of asking you questions and kino escalating"

which is actually very common in my "natural" game...

anyway, thanks for the question....

Vin

[MrBlah]

Originally Posted by walnuts

I find that for daytime approaches, they usually have to go somewhere or do something, and they respond with something like, "I have to go." This seems to happen with very high frequency.

How would you deal with these logistics?

In my opinion this happens for 3 reasons.
1. You creeped her out (wrong body language, too much (or no) attraction stuff or rapport etc.)

2. You engaged her the wrong way (tapped her too hard, came from the wrong angle etc.)

3. She REALLY did have to go and do something more important.

Note: If you believe that something will go wrong, something WILL go wrong

Ps: Vin, you are the BEST! Thanx for everything you do
~Stavros

[brilliantPUA]

Vin, I am always stuck during conversation.
Do you recommend taking improv classes so that I could come up with things to talk about and memorizing crap that I could pull out during the dreaded stalls?

You often talk about dialing the sexual tension, what are your favorite methods/lines that you use for that purpose?

[hano]

Vin,
You often talk about creating intrigue and curiosity but I'm still not quite sure how to do that. In the DDiablo program, you say to create intrigue by not telling her all about yourself. In general, in conversation I don't really tell her my whole life story. Somehow, I don't think it's really creating the intrigue. Could you please go into some more detail about this. I think the intrigue and curiosity is really the "hook".

From my understanding, the intrigue doesn't typically happen instantly but rather within a few minutes of the conversation. I'm also learning the Juggler Method and this intrigue is created I beleive by making her interesting and doing more of the conversation rather by asking open ended questions to her reward/relating rather than me telling her.

Hano

[MrBlah]

Hey! Here are good questions for you
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Mindsets & belief's, mistakes people make & how to fix them, how to move from one step to another (and shortcuts for these), if there is any 'Direct' method för this? difference between Daygame & Nightgame & what works best in certain environments , mixed sets & single sets & all girls sets? drills & homework & fieldwork?


Thankx

[ITotem]

Originally Posted by hano

Vin,
You often talk about creating intrigue and curiosity but I'm still not quite sure how to do that. In the DDiablo program, you say to create intrigue by not telling her all about yourself. In general, in conversation I don't really tell her my whole life story. Somehow, I don't think it's really creating the intrigue. Could you please go into some more detail about this. I think the intrigue and curiosity is really the "hook".

To create intrigue, you still have to talk about yourself. Even though you talk about yourself, you don't tell her EVERYTHING about yourself. If you don't talk about yourself, there's nothing appealing about you that she can get curious/intrigued about.

On a different post, Vin mentioned that creating intrigue is about maintaining a good compliance ratio. I think intrigue can be done in many many ways. If you do role play with the girl like Vin likes to do, you are intriguing b/c you appear different from the average guy. You are fun... in an original way. If you follow Juggler, you are intriguing b/c you are so deeply compassionate and genuine in your desire to know the other person. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by hano

From my understanding, the intrigue doesn't typically happen instantly but rather within a few minutes of the conversation. I'm also learning the Juggler Method and this intrigue is created I beleive by making her interesting and doing more of the conversation rather by asking open ended questions to her reward/relating rather than me telling her.

Intrigue can happen right away if you apply the contrast principle in your clothing style. Personally, I perceive intrigue as giving yourself a little bit of originality so that you are deemed slightly different than the average guy. It's a combination of a lot of things (clothes, verbal game, body language, sexual state, being fun in an non-overtly entertaining way... etc)

I hope this helps. Good luck!

[hano]

Thanks for clearing that up Khiem. That makes alot more sense.

[yeayea]

I have 2 questions for Vin:

1. Can you talk more about hooking: how to get it and how to know when you have it ? Is there more to it than attraction? I can create attraction, but Ive never experienced a situation where a girl is chasing me as you describe. How do I go beyond them smiling, accepting me and flirting with me to a situation where they really dont want me to leave. Does this involve making a deeper connection? creating higher levels of attraction? building rapport? What is the key here?

2. How can I develop my vocal tonality? I know that vocal tone is one of the fundamental elements of attraction, but there isnt too much information out there on how to develop and use an attractive voice.

Thanks!

[Faith]

Originally Posted by yeayea

I have 2 questions for Vin:

1. Can you talk more about hooking: how to get it and how to know when you have it ? Is there more to it than attraction? I can create attraction, but Ive never experienced a situation where a girl is chasing me as you describe. How do I go beyond them smiling, accepting me and flirting with me to a situation where they really dont want me to leave. Does this involve making a deeper connection? creating higher levels of attraction? building rapport? What is the key here?

I would also like to know this better! Maybe by being indifferent about the outcome? I always thought that you need a lot of value in order to get the girl chasing you...

Vin said: ''Yes you should never "demonstrate value til they like you" etc....''

But isn't attraction and getting them to chase you ALL about value? I can't see how the girl will like you if you don't bring something to the table.

[ITotem]

Originally Posted by Faith

Vin said: ''Yes you should never "demonstrate value til they like you" etc....''

But isn't attraction and getting them to chase you ALL about value? I can't see how the girl will like you if you don't bring something to the table.

Having value in your life makes attraction easier... but attraction is definitely not ALL about value. Attraction is more about how well you make your current value FIT into the girl's world. How well do you add/contribute to her life? That's theApproach's attainability concept.

I think Vin would say for you not to think in terms of what generates attraction b/c attraction is a process... not what ONE thing you should do. However, if you want to analyze things, I guess attraction is heavily dependant on intrigue.

The reason is: there's always going to be guys who are more handsome, wealther, more experienced, more funny etc... than you in the room you are in (aka have more value than you). Will the girl goes for the guy who is the most [x]? No... she will go for the guy who can make [x] appeal to her the most (intrigue). She will go for the guy whose value is most fitting to her.

[Insanity]

look man.. allow me to add another angle at how to look at this .

realise that isnt about what is really happening its about thw things you need to do.
Realise that most of this shit is in your head.. its all about your reality.

Now yeah attraction may or may not be alot about value.
But the minute you are consciously trying to create or generate or build your value your losing the battle.

Because this shifts your attention to the girl and how shes perceiving you.
This gives her the power. And your now reacting to her... your focus will be on , is my value high enough yet... is my value high enough yet? And your looking to her to see if you have enough value. So now shes controlling your value?

WTF.. see how this snowballs.. you become reactive, you become reaction seeking... and overtime this kind of thinking will make you connect your sense of value and internal state to how she responds to you.

Not exactly the independant state / core or INTERNAL confidence / UNreactiveness or Warm dominance (as vin calls it) your looking for.
No.. its very EXTERNAL and REactive to external things. The minute your being reactive to her youve communicated your lower value.. shes controlling your emotions, she has the power. BLAM your done.

In reality you may or may not b building value. but it doesnt matter what is really happening.
You need to think in terms of what you need to process and what not, build a proper n productive internal mindset.
You are high Value you have lots of value, period. imprint it in your brain. Believe it

Game is all about controlling your own state, about building your reality on internal pillars. Its all in your head.

Thats where the assuming value comes from.
Your value needs to be burnt inside your head.
Then you need to be unreactive to her attempts(external things) to make you believe otherwise about yourself.

the subcommunications coming off that unreactiveness will create the attraction.

Now what happens is: through this process you have built your value in her eyes.. she first may have seen you as less and now as high.
But this wasnt your focus.

What you actually did was.. just believe your value and assume attraction. And through this something else was created.
This pickup shit is one big mindfuck bro.

On top of that unreactiveness... you get compliance out of the girl.. make her invest.
Now compliance would be her doing shit to you and for you.. it will be her accepting things like your arm around her, accepting your dominance, accepting that your late, accepting that you said that thing to her that she cant believe you would say to her.

just COMPLIANCE (compliance will make her invest in you witch will make her like you more and also rationalise that she likes you more , a side effect of compliance is that it increases her perception of your ''value'' the more she works for you the bigger your value will be in her eyes this is the cost-worth conception look it up if you want to.)


and you would demonstrate that this value you hold , that YOU ARE.. is attainable to her, this is the concept ITOTEM was talking about.

And boy oh boy will you have hardcore attraction.

But from all this remember that game is one big REALITY clash.
Its all in your head. Its all about preventing from falling into mental traps like thinking you need to consciously do shit to create attraction, thinking what you have to say isnt good enough, thinking she wont like you etc. Its all about how you process the world.

Theres no such thing as creating attraction, its a process happening through your way of communicating.

I hope this made things more clear im not good at short explanations,
Im trying to open your world here because i feel the most important things are barely talked about on her having a sense of core confidence and being unreactive and the process of creating this is the heart of pickup and a solid identity.
if this doesnt make sense responce back, il try to condense and make it click for ya.

coo
Insane

[ITotem]

Nice post, Insanity! I liked what you got to say, brother

[yeayea]

Originally Posted by ITotem

Having value in your life makes attraction easier... but attraction is definitely not ALL about value. Attraction is more about how well you make your current value FIT into the girl's world. How well do you add/contribute to her life? That's theApproach's attainability concept.

Speaking of the VAC model, does Vin still follow it? I havent seen much on this site/forum that speaks about it.